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  •  argument *for* democracy (4.00 / 3)

    I see the diary less as an argument against democracy than as a call to renewed democratic conversation. All of the items that Chris lists are things that we, our neighbors, and our elected officials know nothing, little, some, a lot about; so I see this as a reminder that we all have a lot to learn. And we can learn from each other. It seems to me that the essence of a truly democratic society is found in just such conversations, in which each of us shares her knowledge, admits to having wide gaps in knowledge, and opens up to learning. Not only is this how we can come to vote well, it is how we can come to live well.

    "All efforts to render politics aesthetic culminate in one thing: war." -- Walter Benjamin

    by Damo on Tue Apr 20, 2004 at 03:03:18 PM PDT

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    •  sort of... (none / 0)

      ...I shouldn't have said the "argument against democracy" thing, it was really a sidebar. We don't live in a true democracy, nor would we want to, because then each of us would actually have to amass the wealth of knowledge described above, not just about Iraq, but about everything, in order to live and vote well. And frankly, it isn't efficient nor are most of us up to the task. It takes a lifetime to learn those things, then we need another lifetime to learn about Medicare, and another about Israel, etc.

      So, in order to improve efficiencies, we live in a representative democracy. We must trust those we elect to hire equally trustworthy experts, who must focus on their little areas, then advise the executive, who must be wise enough to figure out what the experts are talking about, and then communicate to the public why any particular action is being taken.

      Where our knowledge must absolutely be "up to the task" is not on the intricacies of any particular issue, but on whether and how our leaders are doing their jobs. Some of this does indeed require a modicum of knowledge and curiosity about important issues and the sensibilities to figure out what various outcomes might be. Even this requires a fair amount of discipline, but not nearly what Chris is asking for. But it's beyond what most of our fat, dumb and happy public are willing to do these days.

      Going back to the main point --- a good decision on Iraq at this point really requires that someone or a small group of people know all the information requested in the diary entry, and must be equally adept at coming up with related policy. And we have to trust our leaders (and also independent sources) to do so. Thus I wrote the short description of what I think is important in a leader.

      Unfortunately, finding out whether our leaders are doing their jobs is more difficult than ever, as our major news sources merge into a few conglomerates and our leaders become more secretive. Deregulation of the media is one of the worst things Clinton ever agreed to. Bush actively making the government less and less transparent is criminal. The Internet is a godsend, and probably the only reason there is anyone standing up to Bush at this point.

      I guess what it comes down to is, yeah, I don't know all that stuff about Iraq, or even half of it. I never pretended to (like certain administration officials). On the other hand I have never offered an opinion here about what we need to do in Iraq (except I was pretty damn sure we shouldn't have gone in). But fortunately I have been diligent enough to figure out that our leaders have betrayed our trust, are constantly hiding from us, and are selling us out. Iraq is merely a symptom of that --- one of many.

      Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's ass. - Barry Goldwater, 1981

      by Doug in SF on Tue Apr 20, 2004 at 05:42:43 PM PDT

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      •  Re: sort of... (none / 0)

        I'm not really talking here about democracy as a particular system of state political organization. For the purpose of this diary, I'm thinking of it more as a form of social behavior involving learning and sharing and decision making and creating, which I happen to prefer to approach as a set of interrelated, discursive, and radically participatory processes. In that sense, I believe the diary highlights the inevitable incompleteness of knowledge and, thus, the need for individuals to rely on each other collectively to achieve any given societal goal. I don't think this precludes or even has much to do with whether we organize our political system along "representative" lines. I do think it precludes justifications of authority of the type that the diary reacts against (for example, imposing our will on others, etc.). I also don't think it's useful to see Chris's list as a finite set of knowledge to be "amassed" by experts. As I wrote in my previous comment, each of us has his or her own kind of familiarity/expertise with these and other issues, and each of must rely on others to access and generate new knowledge and make and re-make decisions.

        "All efforts to render politics aesthetic culminate in one thing: war." -- Walter Benjamin

        by Damo on Tue Apr 20, 2004 at 08:46:04 PM PDT

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